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Forward Unto Dawn Forums => Fiction Discussion => Topic started by: Postmortem on June 10, 2012, 06:39:30 PM

Title: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Postmortem on June 10, 2012, 06:39:30 PM
I mean... I doubt it, but I thought it would be interesting to bring it up.

Cortana now has both a voice and a facial actor, MacKenzie Mason. In today's Halo Bulletin, it was revealed that Chief is also acted by two people... Steve Downes (of course) and Bruce Thomas for mocap.

(http://static.tvguide.com/MediaBin/Galleries/Celebrities/A_C/Brid_Bz/Bruce_Thomas/bruce-thomas.jpg)

(http://j.static-locatetv.com/images/person/84/289617_bruce_thomas.jpg)

To be quite honest... he kinda looks like Master Chief to me.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on June 10, 2012, 07:03:57 PM
I dunno, I feel like Master Chief would look a little more intense and battleworn...  But other than that... Yeah He wouldnt be too far off I think...

I think this picture of Steve downs is more probable: :P
(http://www.connectedconsoles.com/articlecontent/images/downeschief.jpg)
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on June 10, 2012, 07:29:04 PM
What the MC looks like is really uninteresting to me. They've done a good job characterizing him other ways. Keeping him faceless is just part of his aura and convention, now--and I dOnt ever see a reason to show his face. If 343i deigns to let the Chief retire, any development would prolly be in the books anyhow.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on June 11, 2012, 02:08:15 AM
deigns?

and yeah, i agree. but its still cool to imagine, dave, geez. you dont have to "poo-poo" every discussion you dont like ;D
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on June 11, 2012, 02:25:56 AM
I'm gonna' get you a word-a-day calendar, Tar, just you wait...

I have been thinking about if 343i would kill off the Chief or not. I mean, assuming "in the future" that they ever let the universe calm down, the Chief is outmoded, and if they were interested in exploring that it's not something done in a game--that's novel territory. On the other hand, he pretty much went down in a blaze of glory for all intents and purposes at the end of 3 as far as everyone except him and Cortana were concerned. Maybe a more permanent resolution of same is what they have planned.

Or maybe they don't want to kill their star period. When Halsey gives her eulogy to Noble Team, Chief's still beating up Grunts with his MJOLNIR walker.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Postmortem on June 11, 2012, 02:27:28 AM
I would write up a long winded explanation of how showing his face could really work in the game's favor, but I'm feeling lazy tonight.

Something about chipping away the solid exterior, revealing the true damaged individual underneath, something about a soul, blah, blah, blah...
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on June 11, 2012, 03:27:16 AM
Unless this trilogy is indeed mainly about an vengeful didact/some other forerunner and the precursors don't have a role to play until a third trilogy (something I truly hope isn't true), then if they would show his face, I'd say at the end of this trilogy.  So, theprecursors are defeated or whatever, John shows his face, and the "main" halo story ends.  I would like it to end after this trilogy.  I remember how I thought it was being milked when they announced Halo 4.   I thought "how could they possibly extend the story?  This is dumb"  but now I see it has the chance to get much more epic before it ends, I just don't want it to last for 6 more (main storyline based) games.

SO uh yeah.  Chiefs face at the end of this trilogy.  Story ends.  Any other games are offshoots and side stories.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Daedalius on June 11, 2012, 06:09:37 PM
To be honest, they probably don't even have a face modeled at all underneath his helmet :)

Besides, he'd just look like another bald space marine, and you guys (nor I) want to see that; I'd much rather associate him with his armor/helmet.

Also just won a H4 MC avatar armor from Kiki, will be wearing that until I win a Halo 5 armor.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on June 11, 2012, 06:10:43 PM
To be honest, they probably don't even have a face modeled at all underneath his helmet :)

Besides, he'd just look like another bald space marine, and you guys (nor I) want to see that; I'd much rather associate him with his armor/helmet.

I always wondered about that, but I imagined that for most characters their armor "is" them as far as a mesh is concerned. Wasn't sure if the members of Noble Team were an exception or not.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Daedalius on June 11, 2012, 06:12:55 PM
To be honest, they probably don't even have a face modeled at all underneath his helmet :)

Besides, he'd just look like another bald space marine, and you guys (nor I) want to see that; I'd much rather associate him with his armor/helmet.

I always wondered about that, but I imagined that for most characters their armor "is" them as far as a mesh is concerned. Wasn't sure if the members of Noble Team were an exception or not.

I've managed to find the models online for Reach and take them apart in 3dsmax, and there aren't faces/heads underneath the helmets regularly (likely for performance reasons), and the faces only show up in cinematics.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on June 11, 2012, 06:18:02 PM
To be honest, they probably don't even have a face modeled at all underneath his helmet :)

Besides, he'd just look like another bald space marine, and you guys (nor I) want to see that; I'd much rather associate him with his armor/helmet.

I always wondered about that, but I imagined that for most characters their armor "is" them as far as a mesh is concerned. Wasn't sure if the members of Noble Team were an exception or not.

I've managed to find the models online for Reach and take them apart in 3dsmax, and there aren't faces/heads underneath the helmets regularly (likely for performance reasons), and the faces only show up in cinematics.

'k, that's what I thought.

I always loved MC's "face" in Combat Evolved. Sure, it was done for performance reasons even back then (why bother making a new model for one scene where it won't even be seen?) but it feels like an awesome fakeout for all those people who broke the game camera to see in through the Longsword.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mkiRQVkERg&t=38s
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on June 11, 2012, 06:26:39 PM
I mean... Everyone would know if they had faces under the helmet, because people would data mine and find the faces and it would be big news

Also: Anyone know the release date of Forward Unto Dawn?
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on June 13, 2012, 08:17:03 AM
The only way I'd want to see 117 without his helmet is at the end of everything.

He takes of his helmet and we see his haunted, sunken eyes, his pale skin, vicious scars, and we know he is finally finished the fight.

Until Halo 42 is announced anyway.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on June 13, 2012, 11:58:12 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Con5yvHs5x0
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on June 13, 2012, 06:31:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Con5yvHs5x0

We should be grateful H4 is being released in 2012 and not 2011, otherwise that would have actually happened
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on June 13, 2012, 06:59:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Con5yvHs5x0

We should be grateful H4 is being released in 2012 and not 2011, otherwise that would have actually happened
8)

I dunno, while I guess it makes "sense" to reveal Chief's face "at the end" (whatever that might be)... I'd feel like it's a cop-out to expectations. There are certain mysteries I enjoy being left to my imagination at the end of the day.*

*If I were Six or Guns I'd somehow tie this into Mass Effect 3.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: That Gunslinger on June 13, 2012, 08:42:20 PM
*If I were Six or Guns I'd somehow tie this into Mass Effect 3.

Mass... Effect...? Sorry I've never heard of it... ???
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on June 13, 2012, 10:16:29 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Con5yvHs5x0

We should be grateful H4 is being released in 2012 and not 2011, otherwise that would have actually happened
8)

I dunno, while I guess it makes "sense" to reveal Chief's face "at the end" (whatever that might be)... I'd feel like it's a cop-out to expectations. There are certain mysteries I enjoy being left to my imagination at the end of the day.*

*If I were Six or Guns I'd somehow tie this into Mass Effect 3.

I think revealing 117's face not in a heroic, or dramatic way, but showing how great a toll war takes even on the best of us would be the only suitable way to show it.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: That Gunslinger on June 13, 2012, 11:40:38 PM
If it is revealed then yeah he should be in a fatal situation, just like Noble Six's last stand. his helmet is damaged, and he knows he's going down. Even then it shouldn't be like an obvious shot of his face. If anyone has seen the recent seasons of Red vs Blue, then think of the way in which the Director is shown, like you can see his face, but never fully in shot, or it is obscured slightly. So we know what he looks like, but there's not one clear shot of him.

But I would prefer that they didn't show his face to be honest.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on June 14, 2012, 12:14:24 AM
I'd rather it not be shown at all, but if it had to be done, I hope it is done in a way that while get this kind of reaction out of people...

http://splicd.com/2i9iTYe6tEk/450/479 (http://splicd.com/2i9iTYe6tEk/450/479)

 ;D

I dunno, while I guess it makes "sense" to reveal Chief's face "at the end" (whatever that might be)... I'd feel like it's a cop-out to expectations. There are certain mysteries I enjoy being left to my imagination at the end of the day.*

*If I were Six or Guns I'd somehow tie this into Mass Effect 3.

If Gun can't find a way to make an "ass backward Catalyst logic statement" (as I am coining it) then I sure as hell can't. Sorry Dave  :P
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on June 14, 2012, 12:37:16 AM
I'd rather it not be shown at all, but if it had to be done, I hope it is done in a way that while get this kind of reaction out of people...

http://splicd.com/2i9iTYe6tEk/450/479 (http://splicd.com/2i9iTYe6tEk/450/479)

 ;D

The "rethink everything you thought you knew" kind of reaction, or the "people's heads explode, Scanners style" kind of reaction? :P

Also: if there's no mesh under those helmets, why did they have that whole kerfluffle over MC's "face" in the multiplayer Spartans for Halo 3?
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Postmortem on June 14, 2012, 12:44:11 AM
I'd rather it not be shown at all, but if it had to be done, I hope it is done in a way that while get this kind of reaction out of people...

http://splicd.com/2i9iTYe6tEk/450/479 (http://splicd.com/2i9iTYe6tEk/450/479)

 ;D

The "rethink everything you thought you knew" kind of reaction, or the "people's heads explode, Scanners style" kind of reaction? :P

Also: if there's no mesh under those helmets, why did they have that whole kerfluffle over MC's "face" in the multiplayer Spartans for Halo 3?

I believe that was just an egg.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on June 14, 2012, 12:56:38 AM
The "rethink everything you thought you knew" kind of reaction, or the "people's heads explode, Scanners style" kind of reaction? :P

The "Make the people that wanted to see his face want to take back that wish".... and maybe a little bit of the "people's heads exploding"  :)
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on June 14, 2012, 01:07:52 AM
Revealing John 117's face will be an important, emotional moment.

Photoshopped stock photo FTW.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on June 14, 2012, 01:33:32 AM
Revealing John 117's face will be an important, emotional moment.

It could be if done properly. If a lot of time and work isn't put into it, which I guess I don't know why 343i wouldn't, then I'd rather it not be done.

Photoshopped stock photo FTW.

....And there's the ME3 reference you wanted Dave  :P The cycle continues! :D
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on June 14, 2012, 02:43:08 AM
Revealing John 117's face will be an important, emotional moment.

It could be if done properly. If a lot of time and work isn't put into it, which I guess I don't know why 343i wouldn't, then I'd rather it not be done.

Photoshopped stock photo FTW.

....And there's the ME3 reference you wanted Dave  :P The cycle continues! :D

Wait what?  ???
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on June 14, 2012, 03:13:42 AM
Revealing John 117's face will be an important, emotional moment.

It could be if done properly. If a lot of time and work isn't put into it, which I guess I don't know why 343i wouldn't, then I'd rather it not be done.

Photoshopped stock photo FTW.

....And there's the ME3 reference you wanted Dave  :P The cycle continues! :D

Wait what?  ???
There is a race in the series called the quarians... long story short they cant survive outside of the envrio-suits they have to wear to surive and hence, we never see what they look like in game. In ME3, we were promised that we would finally see the face of a well known and well loved quarian character. This is what we got (image on the right; it only appeared as a photo that Shepard has)

(http://media.gamebandits.com/images/2012/03/taligetty.jpg)
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on June 14, 2012, 03:15:38 AM
Haha, that's great. How'd people figure out what it was from? Wouldn't think a RIS or Tineye search would pull up that source...
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on June 14, 2012, 03:36:48 AM
Haha, that's great. How'd people figure out what it was from? Wouldn't think a RIS or Tineye search would pull up that source...

What's even worse is the fact they put more effort into getting Chobots boobs in the game than a fan-favourite character of all 3 games in the series.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on June 14, 2012, 03:37:48 AM
Haha, that's great. How'd people figure out what it was from? Wouldn't think a RIS or Tineye search would pull up that source...

Gun might have to help me on this one, but I think that is one of the voice actors in ME3.

Either way, in this day and age, if your gonna photo shop any image, I think sooner or later people are gonna find out.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on June 14, 2012, 03:41:08 AM
Haha, that's great. How'd people figure out what it was from? Wouldn't think a RIS or Tineye search would pull up that source...

What's even worse is the fact they put more effort into getting Chobots boobs in the game than a fan-favourite character of all 3 games in the series.

Very true. Kinda lends some credence to "EA was paying off the major game reviewers/magazines to say the game and ending were amazing" by having an IGN reporter as a voice over for what I'm sure was her first time. Chobot was a horrible voice actor, like they used her first take on all of her lines.

However, I will say it made for a very funny cameo in Gamer Poop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpeRk1YFn8s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpeRk1YFn8s)
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on June 14, 2012, 04:56:11 AM
Haha, that's great. How'd people figure out what it was from? Wouldn't think a RIS or Tineye search would pull up that source...

What's even worse is the fact they put more effort into getting Chobots boobs in the game than a fan-favourite character of all 3 games in the series.

Very true. Kinda lends some credence to "EA was paying off the major game reviewers/magazines to say the game and ending were amazing" by having an IGN reporter as a voice over for what I'm sure was her first time. Chobot was a horrible voice actor, like they used her first take on all of her lines.

However, I will say it made for a very funny cameo in Gamer Poop:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpeRk1YFn8s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpeRk1YFn8s)

It did give me the exquisite joy of getting to tell her to fuck off and never seeing her again, so it was good in that way I guess.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: paranoiartist on July 03, 2012, 01:46:30 AM
Chief's face can't be shown. Nope, even if 343i will find a way to reveal it "properly" there will be parts of the fanbase that will still criticize it. His face is better left untouched. The graphic novels, that show his younger face, are enough to spawn A LOT of fan art and designs. Chief was meant to be several faces so we can adapt to him.

Slightly off topic from the last post but I just joined the community and couldn't help but throw my opinion out there. As to Chobot = overrated.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on July 03, 2012, 02:39:22 AM
Welcome!

As you can see, I'd say about half of our community is split on revealing MC's face (I am against it as well for the same reasons).

As for Chobot, I hope that ME3 is her last voice over in a video game, or at least the last in a game I enjoy so much.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on July 04, 2012, 01:39:03 AM
Howdy!
   I refuse to acknowledge the other side in this argument. There is no split on the subject of MC's face :P

And Six, did you just say you ENJOYED ME3!?!!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on July 04, 2012, 02:36:46 AM
And Six, did you just say you ENJOYED ME3!?!!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

Yes, I enjoyed ME3 as a video game, the (original) ending was shit. I still had fun playing the game up until the last few minutes, so I would say I enjoyed the game overall. I stated this many times in the ME3 thread, but I don't hold it against you for not checking a thread you have no interest in  :P

Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: That Gunslinger on July 04, 2012, 03:08:10 PM
And Six, did you just say you ENJOYED ME3!?!!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?

Yes, I enjoyed ME3 as a video game, the (original) ending was shit. I still had fun playing the game up until the last few minutes, so I would say I enjoyed the game overall. I stated this many times in the ME3 thread, but I don't hold it against you for not checking a thread you have no interest in  :P

It's a masterpiece now. I would never say a bad thing about it. Never have, never will. Oh no! 80% of my posts have mysteriously disappeared in the last few minutes! Now we'll never know what they contained.

Anyway I know what 343 should do.
Master Chief should take off his helmet after meeting up with his fellow Spartan IIs and say "Just like old times Fred." ...and reveal Garrus. Also get rid of Neil Davidge cause there needs to be like 87% more dubstep and much more explosions. Take out all the dialogue and plot too, cause nobody wants to listen to that. Actually just remove the single player cause nobody plays that anyway. Just focus on small multiplayer maps and remove vehicles. Add like at least 8 more Snipers too k? k.

There I just saved Halo 4 for you 343. You're welcome.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: paranoiartist on July 04, 2012, 04:01:23 PM
Waah! You literally just ripped my heart out!! Hahah! You turned into an Infinity Ward game! Geez... That must not happen.

NO face showing. Nope. Nu-uh. Never!
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Hemlax on July 04, 2012, 04:11:12 PM
Cīmon ppl. U know there is only one person who can do this.

(http://i.imgur.com/82xX3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on July 04, 2012, 04:19:15 PM
Much better than Nicholas Cage  :P
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: paranoiartist on July 04, 2012, 04:20:40 PM
Hahahaha!! Oh god no. Lol. But yes, way better than Nicholas Cage.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on July 04, 2012, 04:30:14 PM
So I guess I'm the only person who thought he did a decent job in the first Ghost Rider film?
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: paranoiartist on July 04, 2012, 04:38:34 PM
So I guess I'm the only person who thought he did a decent job in the first Ghost Rider film?

*Looks around entire forum.... *

Yes. Lol.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on July 04, 2012, 04:58:25 PM
Oh, don't get me wrong, it was not AAA quality, but I thought there was a lot of interesting elements to it, the effects were well done, and the resolution was a little more clever than "defeat the bad guy with lots of punching". Also, if you consider Nicholas Cage to be a basic movie stumbling block, it worked around him well. I never felt like "this movie would be way better without Cage".
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Hemlax on July 04, 2012, 07:40:03 PM
So I guess I'm the only person who thought he did a decent job in the first Ghost Rider film?

U beeing sarcastic ? Or ? I consider that one of the worst movies of all time.

Weird enough, Nick has been one of the top actors in hollywood once. Dont know what happened to him. Movies like Wild at Heart, Leaving Las Vegas, Adaptation...superb.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on July 04, 2012, 09:55:56 PM
Weird enough, Nick has been one of the top actors in hollywood once. Dont know what happened to him. Movies like Wild at Heart, Leaving Las Vegas, Adaptation...superb.

I would throw Gone in 60 Seconds in your superb category.... just my opinion.

But I would agree with you; somewhere along the line, he just seemed like he was trying to hard. I don't know how to explain it exactly, but it seemed like he was trying to act like a crazy person with multiple personalities in his films (and in real life) when the role didn't call for that. Maybe he really likes Nikki Minaj's music (fighting back the urge to puke while saying that) and was trying to emulate her.

I feel Tar giving our posts the death stare for going off topic - what was the topic of this thread again? - oh yeah. Nicholas Cage would make a horrible Master Chief  ;D disaster averted.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on July 07, 2012, 08:02:00 PM
Hahaha, Nicholas Cage sucks now. But i think Cage-Chief is the perfect illustration of Everything that we should be afraid of from a hollywood-halo.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on September 07, 2012, 04:20:58 PM
4:40

"On the other hand, he has a great story under that helmet too" *Wink nudge poke*

Edit: I guess it would help if I actually posted the link...huh.... :o

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/hhbwte/halo-4-pax-prime-12--wolfkill-interview
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on September 13, 2012, 03:16:01 AM
Just saw this the other night. I thought it was appropriate for the subject matter :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mpcxL5Xdmw&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on September 21, 2012, 04:10:22 PM
This isnt exactly "On Topic" but since I know we will never see the chief's face, I dont think it a big deal.

ON THE SUBJECT OF THE CHANGES IN CHIEF'S MARK VI ARMOR:

Quote from: G4 Article
Once Cortana comes back online, her first order of business is to defrost Chief. Once Chiefís systems are reactivated, the perspective shifts to Chief in his defrosting pod. Knowing that players will immediately question why Chiefís HUD is different than when Chief went to sleep, Cortana promptly explains that she updated your suitís firmware while you were out.

I dont know what to think about this... Is this really the canonical explaination?
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on September 21, 2012, 05:57:48 PM
That is just for the HUD...not his actual armor.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on September 21, 2012, 06:47:46 PM
Idk, it seems like it would be weird to explain away the HUD changes without explaining the Armor changes....
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on September 21, 2012, 08:18:44 PM
That is just for the HUD...not his actual armor.

Agreed. Upgrading the Chief's firmware probably has little or nothing to do with armor changes, but it does explain the HUD changes. I'm sure the explanation for the armor change is still yet to come.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on September 21, 2012, 08:44:42 PM
Though I'm 90% sure the "real" explanation is simply "pretend he was always wearing it".
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Sixftunder on September 21, 2012, 08:46:52 PM
Though I'm 90% sure the "real" explanation is simply "pretend he was always wearing it".

That or "the new engine can run better graphics". Either one is fine with me. I like his new armor. I feel like if I didn't then I would really want an explanation.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on September 21, 2012, 10:52:27 PM
Though I'm 90% sure the "real" explanation is simply "pretend he was always wearing it".

That or "the new engine can run better graphics". Either one is fine with me. I like his new armor. I feel like if I didn't then I would really want an explanation.

I want an explanation either way :P

I think we've reached the end of the line of "graphics did it" as a legitimate excuse. The biggest gains in the next generation of games will be things like textures, particles, physics renderings, mocap, etc.--not the actual polygons.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on September 21, 2012, 11:39:46 PM
True true, although I feel that there most certainly will be a jump in polygons when the Xbox 720 comes round ("720 comes round", PUN!!! :D )
And there is always the other excuse that its a new company and this is the first game and they want to make a product that is totally theirs and that is coherent with everything that they will make, which means that we probably wont be seeing crazy retcon changes, explained or not, in the future.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on September 25, 2012, 11:52:56 AM
I guess the ultimate reason the changes leave me so miffed is not even because they change recognizable aspects of the universe, but that otherwise 343i has been interested in being as accommodating to old fiction as possible. Things like "Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss" and the Data Drops attempted to reconcile Bungie's own conflicts, and they left themselves a lot of wiggle room when discrepancies cropped up ("Origins" and the Forerunner trilogy thus far.)

I just don't understand how that same sort of conservation measure isn't employed artistically. It matters just as much, and is certainly more visible to non-diehard fans.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on September 25, 2012, 01:49:46 PM
I agree, although, I think that almost everything could be excused except the Forward unto Dawn redesign... Especially when like, they show the ships that are of the same class as the FUD in the trailers and stuff and they havent changed...
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Postmortem on September 25, 2012, 02:57:33 PM
Things like "Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss"

What was that reconciling?
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: DangerousDave on September 25, 2012, 03:23:18 PM
Things like "Stomping on the Heels of a Fuss"

What was that reconciling?

It touched on the reasons for the differences between Halo 2 and Halo 3 Brutes. It wasn't the focus, but it was a nice callback an insight into Brute culture.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on November 07, 2012, 02:02:29 PM
*Spoilers*

Legendary ending...
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Postmortem on November 07, 2012, 02:29:25 PM
Not really that much of a spoiler. I don't think the Legendary ending is such a big deal. Doesn't destroy anybody's perception of him. Just reinforces the fact that he's getting old and he's really tired.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on November 07, 2012, 03:48:59 PM
It shows a pretty significant portion of his face.  Too much for people to deny what he may really look like, imo.

Seems to me they're Slowly pushing to showing his face full on eventually.

He's got them squinty clint eastwood eyes.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on November 07, 2012, 03:56:06 PM
Not really that much of a spoiler. I don't think the Legendary ending is such a big deal. Doesn't destroy anybody's perception of him. Just reinforces the fact that he's getting old and he's really tired.

Yeah, a bit disappointing that the legendary ending is virtually identical to the SPOPS video you can watch in the menu, but the thread is spoiler tagged, so...

I'm just disappointed how human he looked. I was anticipating some kind of evolution for some reason.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: That Gunslinger on November 07, 2012, 04:00:48 PM
He's got them squinty clint eastwood eyes.

Well Steve Downes is the Clint Eastwood of gaming. :)

I seriously doubt that they will properly show John's face. It was only there to show how weary he looks now. Also quite frankly how empty he is. There's no Cortana now. He has to find his own humanity, what he believes, not just what Halsey's indoctrination told him to believe. I found it nice that Lasky was the one to make Chief realise who he was, just as Chief did at Corbulo. Lasky realised that war is a necessity, but so is keeping your humanity. John has to realise that that he isn't JUST a soldier, he's a person. He has to start living for the first time in his life.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Postmortem on November 07, 2012, 05:26:30 PM
He's got them squinty clint eastwood eyes.

Well Steve Downes is the Clint Eastwood of gaming. :)

I seriously doubt that they will properly show John's face. It was only there to show how weary he looks now. Also quite frankly how empty he is. There's no Cortana now. He has to find his own humanity, what he believes, not just what Halsey's indoctrination told him to believe. I found it nice that Lasky was the one to make Chief realise who he was, just as Chief did at Corbulo. Lasky realised that war is a necessity, but so is keeping your humanity. John has to realise that that he isn't JUST a soldier, he's a person. He has to start living for the first time in his life.

Yeah, this is an excellent summary. Summed up how I felt about it.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on November 07, 2012, 05:27:48 PM
To me he had fiery determination in his eyes, not emptiness. 
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: That Gunslinger on November 07, 2012, 11:31:21 PM
Another thing I've noticed in the Lasky and Chief cutscene is that John doesn't even notice when Lasky enters the room. He just stares out towards Earth until Lasky speaks, then looks up and turns. He must be in some mighty deep thought for anyone, let alone a Spartan not to notice that. I know it doesn't sound convincing in text form, but go back and watch it and you'll see what I mean. Poor Chief.  :'(
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on November 08, 2012, 01:41:57 AM
He needs friends.

Friends that understand him.

Friends that know how he feels

Friends who have gone through mostly the same stuff he has.


Oh wait he has those.  They've just been ignored.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on November 08, 2012, 05:20:37 AM
He needs friends.

Friends that understand him.

Friends that know how he feels

Friends who have gone through mostly the same stuff he has.


Oh wait he has those.  They've just been ignored.

Kelly and Fred were in Forward Unto Dawn, and they are all now back in UNSC controlled space, so there is nothing except plot device and tradition keeping them apart now... of course I expect Halo 5 to start with immediate wild goose chase preventing them from meeting up again, but whatever.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Postmortem on November 08, 2012, 07:29:54 AM
Technically, wouldn't they be part of the Spartan IV program now?
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on November 08, 2012, 07:48:11 AM
They shoulda shown up on the infinity if they were   :-\

A lot of the scenarios that happened, such as Didacts ultimate reveal and the "welcoming party" for master chief were about a thousand times more epic and interesting in my head.

Would've added a lot more drama if Didact didn't decide to show himself so damn early.  If he were a mysterious presence within the magic ball for over half the game, THEN he's forced to reveal himself because of the librarians genesong or something, similar to how chakas and co were required to open the cryptum on earth. (on a slightly related note, it is not explained how Cortana learned the didacts name...she just magically knew right after seeing him).

There's no mystery.  Everything is so straightforward.  From reading Greg Bears books, the librarian came off as a very mysterious, almost magical Galadriel type figure.  In the game she's just a worried mother with a funny hat. (a hat that really does not convey the amazing beauty that the books spoke of)

I had visualized that after chief get knocked out in the E3 demo, the screen goes black. You hear gunfire, and as chief comes too he see's three green spartans securing the area.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on November 08, 2012, 03:47:49 PM
Quote from:  waz
Would've added a lot more drama if Didact didn't decide to show himself so damn early.  If he were a mysterious presence within the magic ball for over half the game
Totally agree

Quote
There's no mystery.  Everything is so straightforward.  From reading Greg Bears books, the librarian came off as a very mysterious, almost magical Galadriel type figure.  In the game she's just a worried mother with a funny hat. (a hat that really does not convey the amazing beauty that the books spoke of)
I think they did a pretty good job... The amazing beauty could have been partly geas

Quote
I had visualized that after chief get knocked out in the E3 demo, the screen goes black. You hear gunfire, and as chief comes too he see's three green spartans securing the area.
I think that they wanted to stress how much better and more bad ass the chief was than the S-IVs
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on November 08, 2012, 03:53:24 PM
I think that they wanted to stress how much better and more bad ass the chief was than the S-IVs

Really? I got more of a *sigh, noob captain Del Rio's derp orders mean its all up to me I guess* from John. I don't remember seeing the Spartan IVs do anything but run around in circles on the Mammoth which is suspiciously similar to an almost identical vehicle from Too Human.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Postmortem on November 08, 2012, 05:44:59 PM
Quote
There's no mystery.  Everything is so straightforward.  From reading Greg Bears books, the librarian came off as a very mysterious, almost magical Galadriel type figure.  In the game she's just a worried mother with a funny hat. (a hat that really does not convey the amazing beauty that the books spoke of)
I think they did a pretty good job... The amazing beauty could have been partly geas

I think they did an amazing job on the Librarian. She is certainly capable of being beautiful by human standards, but I think it's very important that she didn't fall into the "hot" category. To continue with what you said, she was beautiful in the same way Galadriel was beautiful in the films. The actress is certainly very attractive, but doesn't fall into the category of Angelina Jolie/Jessica Alba hotness sorta stuff.

I'm very, very pleased with how the Librarian looked. Matched my expectations.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: That Gunslinger on November 08, 2012, 07:24:29 PM
I'm very, very pleased with how the Librarian looked. Matched my expectations.

Me too. Plus the fact that she chose to float everywhere really gave her that ethereal feeling. Her personality was spot-on too, she was a lot like a Forerunner version of Halsey actually... not that I'm hinting at anything...  ;)
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Postmortem on November 08, 2012, 08:38:36 PM
You guys should read this:

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1162289
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on November 08, 2012, 09:01:10 PM
You guys should read this:

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1162289

I like how he says using humans as robot soldiers is a plot contrivance, when the Didact had vast numbers of humans already composed. Goes to show how big some of the gaps in the halo gamer vs halo reader are.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on November 08, 2012, 10:16:14 PM
You guys should read this:

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1162289

I like how he says using humans as robot soldiers is a plot contrivance, when the Didact had vast numbers of humans already composed. Goes to show how big some of the gaps in the halo gamer vs halo reader are.

Or maybe some of those composed humans died off when they were fighting the flood. Or were decommissioned when the Didact was imprisoned. Or those masses weren't on requiem. Or maybe not every human's mind is eligible to be turned into a promethean, and so even though he has masses of them, most of those are useless. Or maybe he wants to kill three birds with one stone and build his army, while destroying the "ancient evil" (humanity)'s army, while eliminating as much food and potential combatants for the flood if they were to take over.
Or maybe it was a combination of a few of those reasons.

There are a lot of reasons why he needs more soldiers... You just got to think a little...
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: That Gunslinger on November 08, 2012, 10:27:16 PM
You guys should read this:

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1162289

I like that he's trying to think outside the box, but he's wrong for many reasons. Master Chief is not even ancient for a start, and 'evil' is all a matter of opinion. I thought the Didact's motivations were really well explained actually, especially with the terminals.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Postmortem on November 09, 2012, 01:06:03 AM
You guys should read this:

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1162289

I like how he says using humans as robot soldiers is a plot contrivance, when the Didact had vast numbers of humans already composed. Goes to show how big some of the gaps in the halo gamer vs halo reader are.

Or maybe some of those composed humans died off when they were fighting the flood. Or were decommissioned when the Didact was imprisoned. Or those masses weren't on requiem. Or maybe not every human's mind is eligible to be turned into a promethean, and so even though he has masses of them, most of those are useless. Or maybe he wants to kill three birds with one stone and build his army, while destroying the "ancient evil" (humanity)'s army, while eliminating as much food and potential combatants for the flood if they were to take over.
Or maybe it was a combination of a few of those reasons.

There are a lot of reasons why he needs more soldiers... You just got to think a little...

I think the problem is that it's presented as his end-all plan in the terminals, but those who know the fiction can easily get that that's not the case. That's just for people who haven't read the books n whatnot. Dumbing down the plot to its most basic elements.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on November 09, 2012, 04:31:12 AM
MC evil?  Is that why didact repeatedly accuses John of being "Noble" and having too much "Nobility"?
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Tar Alacrin on November 09, 2012, 05:06:57 AM
You can have a noble evil... I would consider the Didact to be noble,  but still evil...

Idk, it seems like it could be a large part of his plan... Maybe the H3 terminal plan is contingent on the fact that he has enough Prometheans to man the stations and run the attacks...
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on November 09, 2012, 06:19:42 AM
You guys should read this:

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1162289

I like how he says using humans as robot soldiers is a plot contrivance, when the Didact had vast numbers of humans already composed. Goes to show how big some of the gaps in the halo gamer vs halo reader are.

Or maybe some of those composed humans died off when they were fighting the flood. Or were decommissioned when the Didact was imprisoned. Or those masses weren't on requiem. Or maybe not every human's mind is eligible to be turned into a promethean, and so even though he has masses of them, most of those are useless. Or maybe he wants to kill three birds with one stone and build his army, while destroying the "ancient evil" (humanity)'s army, while eliminating as much food and potential combatants for the flood if they were to take over.
Or maybe it was a combination of a few of those reasons.

There are a lot of reasons why he needs more soldiers... You just got to think a little...

I'm not saying any of that isn't true, I'm just saying it isn't a contrivance. It is well supported by canon that Forerunners are happy to use humans to operate their machines.
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on November 09, 2012, 06:37:25 AM
Im convinced Didact sees humans as a threat because they are unfit to save the galaxy from any threats as in if and when the precursors return the galaxy is doomed because it was entrusted to such weaklings.

If they can't even master the covenant, how will they protect everyone from something a million times more sinister and brutal?
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Capac Amaru on November 09, 2012, 06:48:58 AM
Im convinced Didact sees humans as a threat because they are unfit to save the galaxy from any threats as in if and when the precursors return the galaxy is doomed because it was entrusted to such weaklings.

If they can't even master the covenant, how will they protect everyone from something a million times more sinister and brutal?

That was the impression I got, but its also quite a flawed opinion for the Didact to have. A cursory glance at humanities history should reveal that they only failed against the covenant due to the Covenant having a technological edge due to FORERUNNER INCOMPETENCE. It would be like saying that a boxer is weak because he was beaten by the guy who found the gun you left in the boxing ring.

I think the real reason for the Didact's animosity is something he doesn't want to admit to himself, hence his attempts to justify and convince himself of it, that humanity challenged his hubris. Humanity put up a better fight than he thought possible, it turned out they weren't aggressively expanding, they were actively trying to defeat an even greater enemy (impossible!), they defeated him in the way that really mattered (hiding their flood 'cure'), and then he became forced to rely on them for his army.

I think I mentioned in another thread that the Didact, Master Builder, and Librarian all represent different aspects of Forerunner hubris, each believing that their way is the only way (although the librarian is seemingly more comfortable with a mixed approach, using lifework, as well as warfare and technology).
Title: Re: The Face of Master Chief?
Post by: Wazooty on November 09, 2012, 08:00:44 AM
Yeah.  While on one side he thinks humans are weak (something we actively prove to him were not in game), he still also thinks forerunners deserve to be in their position, which adds to his want to get rid of them.

Also, yeah, in the terminals, The librarian seemed to be pretty chill with the master builder.  Master builder seemed more neutral than anything.

To win, we must unite all three!