Author Topic: Mass Effect 3  (Read 44109 times)

Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2012, 11:02:44 PM »

Sixftunder

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I've just finished it... it was amazing. One of the best video games I have ever played, one of the best pieces of entertainment ever created. I cried 3 times, and I don't care. I can see why some people are having issues with the ending, it's just like the way in which the Lost ending was percieved. But I found it very satisfactory, and it answered alll of the big questions. (well at least my ending did anyway). Cheers Bioware... and get lost EA ;).

Alright, finally got someone to discuss this with.

All in all, ME3 was the best of the trilogy. I would give it a 10/10. I loved every minute of the campaign, all up until the credits started to roll.

The main reason I wasn't satisfied was this: There is no closure; all of the decisions you make in the game seem to mean nothing in the end. We never hear about the Rachni Queen (if you choose to save her; see said she would help fight the reapers), we never hear about the Krogan after the curing the genpophage, etc. A lot of people speculate that this will all be included in DLC, but how? The reapears are gone, so who would we be fighting?

I know Bioware was trying to do something outside of the box, and away from the Hollywood norm of "the good guys win and live happily ever after" and I respect that. However, it just seems like they spent all of their time on the rest of the game and realized they needed and ending before they could ship the game, so they slapped one in there.
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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2012, 04:55:55 AM »

Postmortem

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I liked the ending... a lot.

However, I also understand the complaints.

Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2012, 07:48:30 AM »

Capac Amaru

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I've just finished it... it was amazing. One of the best video games I have ever played, one of the best pieces of entertainment ever created. I cried 3 times, and I don't care. I can see why some people are having issues with the ending, it's just like the way in which the Lost ending was percieved. But I found it very satisfactory, and it answered alll of the big questions. (well at least my ending did anyway). Cheers Bioware... and get lost EA ;).

I still haven't played singleplayer, no updates from EA or Bioware

Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2012, 08:54:43 AM »

That Gunslinger

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Yes I agree that we deserved a longer cutscene at the end in order to show us exactly who survived, and at the end of the day each alliance you gathered just went into the total number of forces you had, and didn't as far as I saw make any difference (other than changing your options at the end). On the Krogan, I thought that the cutscene after the Genophage was cured essentially guaranteed their safety, so I was fine with that. On the Rachi, didn't she say that they were mostly working on the Crucible? Though I expected to see a few appear towards the final battles, same with the geth.

But anyway, I thought the ending was appropriate, it taught us why the Reapers attack, and who controls them, which is all I wanted from the game really. I chose the 'control' ending by the way, which seemed to tbe the best choice, as it stoppped the reapers, and saved as many people as possible, without killing the Geth too, or starting the cycle again. Of course the Relays were all destroyed so that essentially puts everyone back where they were before them (though they still have FTL drives). And most importantly for me, Joker, Liara and my battle-bro Garrus survived, and presumably the rest of the crew did if that planet was repopulated as was hinted at after the credits.

And that standoff with the Illusive Man, very, very nice indeed. One of the best scenes in the series. Oh and plunging my blade into Kai Leng, and saying "That was for Thane you son of a bitch" didn't hurt either. I think the main reason people weren't happy with the ending is that it wasn't a perfect 'happy' ending, but it shouldn't be. I showed that countless sacrifices were made, but there is hope. The only thing I didn't get was what Shepard was going to do with the Reapers. Will he help people rebuild or what? And how will he stop synthetics from being created again? I guess he is now the guardian of the galaxy, or as Stargazer said: 'The Shepard' of the Reapers.
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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2012, 12:09:40 PM »

Sixftunder

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Yes I agree that we deserved a longer cutscene at the end in order to show us exactly who survived, and at the end of the day each alliance you gathered just went into the total number of forces you had, and didn't as far as I saw make any difference (other than changing your options at the end). On the Krogan, I thought that the cutscene after the Genophage was cured essentially guaranteed their safety, so I was fine with that. On the Rachi, didn't she say that they were mostly working on the Crucible? Though I expected to see a few appear towards the final battles, same with the geth.

But anyway, I thought the ending was appropriate, it taught us why the Reapers attack, and who controls them, which is all I wanted from the game really. I chose the 'control' ending by the way, which seemed to tbe the best choice, as it stoppped the reapers, and saved as many people as possible, without killing the Geth too, or starting the cycle again. Of course the Relays were all destroyed so that essentially puts everyone back where they were before them (though they still have FTL drives). And most importantly for me, Joker, Liara and my battle-bro Garrus survived, and presumably the rest of the crew did if that planet was repopulated as was hinted at after the credits.

And that standoff with the Illusive Man, very, very nice indeed. One of the best scenes in the series. Oh and plunging my blade into Kai Leng, and saying "That was for Thane you son of a bitch" didn't hurt either. I think the main reason people weren't happy with the ending is that it wasn't a perfect 'happy' ending, but it shouldn't be. I showed that countless sacrifices were made, but there is hope. The only thing I didn't get was what Shepard was going to do with the Reapers. Will he help people rebuild or what? And how will he stop synthetics from being created again? I guess he is now the guardian of the galaxy, or as Stargazer said: 'The Shepard' of the Reapers.

Well the Queen did lend forces towards the crucible, but she said she would actually fight the reapers, which made me think we were going to see a scene with her fighting a reaper, even the smaller, indoctrinated forces.

But do we really know who is controlling the reapers? The Prothean VI found on Thesia does state that it believes the reapers act as an agent for the cycle, but they are not its masters, but I don't recall that ever being fully explained. I still don't understand what exactly the catalyst is; I gather that the catalyst appears as the boy lost on Earth to have some symbolic meaning to Shepard, but what exactly is the catalyst?

For my first playthrough, when I killed Lang he said this is for Miranda I believe. I know he did not say Thane, but he did survive the suicide mission for me on ME2 (as did everyone). I also choose to control them at the end, and then watched the ending for the destroy option on youtube. The whole "you have three options at the end" doesn't seem necessary since all the endings are essentially the same. The other issue I had with the ending was that you even had an option. No matter what choices you made in the end of ME1 and ME2, the ending was always the same, so I partially expected the same here.
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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2012, 12:54:22 PM »

That Gunslinger

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Ok now that I've had a think about it I believe that Shepard never made it to the Citadel. When he awoke after getting hit by the Harbinger's laser, he was from that point on being tested, and if he chose control or synthesis, then he was indoctrinated. If you chose destroy, then the Reapers are defeated, and Shepard lives. At the end of the destroy ending, you see Shepard awaken from the rubble in London, he breathes heavily, and the screen goes black. Therefore he was not indoctrinated. The Crucible was explained by the Prothean VI to have been redesigned many times, I believe that this design allowed Shepard to rewrite the cycle, and the Catalyst was the Reaper's last attempt to indoctrinate him and stop him from choosing to destroy them. It makes sense, I didn't exactly disagree with the Catalyst's explaination of why the cycle existed, it seemed logical, and that's something they used against Shepard.

This means that Shepard never encountered the Illusive man then, and that he was merely an illusion, which is said to be one of the side effects of indoctrination if you look in the codex. Or he could have been real, and the Reapers, knowing that he was under their control, decided to use him as another attempt to stop Shepard. But as I said, I don't think Shepard made it to the Citadel.

I think the ending is great, even more so now that I've looked beyond the apparent facts of it. But I did want a longer cutscene and a bit more closure than it supplied. Not Return of the King amounts of closure, but something more appropriate.
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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2012, 01:21:26 PM »

Capac Amaru

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Ok, I'm out. I can't even play the damn thing and you guys are going all spoiler happy.

Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2012, 01:25:50 PM »

Sixftunder

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H_A7SeawU4

100% agree with all of this.
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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2012, 04:34:57 PM »

That Gunslinger

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You know what, I do too. He's right, I was clutching at straws. I was trying to make the ending something it wasn't, and for that I was wrong, Bioware was wrong. It's like the feeling I had about Dragon Age 2, but that was the majority of the game, it COULDN'T be fixed. However Mass Effect 3 was one of the best games I have ever played, it's perfect, except for the ending. That is something that CAN be fixed.

I think that video says everything that needs to be said on the topic.

Amazing game, bullshit ending. And shame on Alex Casey for defending it. It's one thing to stay true to the artist's vision, but when the majority of fans are saying it's bad, you would be ignorant not to listen, especially when they are paying money for it. I'm just glad that I was so full of emotion at the time of playing that I didn't realise how crappy the ending truly was. I feel sorry for those that were instantly filled with disapointment. Sort it out Bioware.

I want to relax on the beach with my battle-bro Garrus damn it! (That guy's Garrus impression was awesome  ;D)
"Life is trial Riser."
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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2012, 04:49:44 PM »

Sixftunder

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You know what, I do too. He's right, I was clutching at straws. I was trying to make the ending something it wasn't, and for that I was wrong, Bioware was wrong. It's like the feeling I had about Dragon Age 2, but that was the majority of the game, it COULDN'T be fixed. However Mass Effect 3 was one of the best games I have ever played, it's perfect, except for the ending. That is something that CAN be fixed.

I think that video says everything that needs to be said on the topic.

Amazing game, bullshit ending. And shame on Alex Casey for defending it. It's one thing to stay true to the artist's vision, but when the majority of fans are saying it's bad, you would be ignorant not to listen, especially when they are paying money for it. I'm just glad that I was so full of emotion at the time of playing that I didn't realise how crappy the ending truly was. I feel sorry for those that were instantly filled with disapointment. Sort it out Bioware.

I want to relax on the beach with my battle-bro Garrus damn it! (That guy's Garrus impression was awesome  ;D)

Ok, I think I am going crazy! The ending to this game is driving me insane!

I've been researching this whole "everything after Harbinger's beam hits Shepard, before he gets to the beam, is a dream/indoctrination attempt" and now I am starting to believe it. It makes a hell of a lot more sense, and you have to think about it rather than just taking the ending at face value, which is probably what Bioware was trying to do, rather than s simple cut and dry ending.

Watch these two videos (they discuss relatively the same things, but they both point out different things)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ7bsIpEKIg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYgr1rqEec

They mention how it could be a dream because the ending takes part in a place between the crucible and the citadel, which is effectively in space, which would mean Shepard couldn't breath if it were real (there is talk about a mass effect field around the Citadel). This could lend support to this theory, but this isn't what proved it for me.

The one thing I never noticed was the Kid in the beginning of the game. When we first see him in the duct and turn away to talk to Anderson, we look back and see he is not there, assuming he left. But is that really what happened?  What really got me was that no one helped this kid onto the shuttle, or even seemed to notice that he was there. Very clever Bioware.

The only issue I have with this is if the Catalyst and the Reapers wanted to indoctrinate Shepard, then why just leave afterward if they succeed?(Control or synthesize ending).
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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2012, 06:21:21 PM »

Postmortem

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Synthesis ending is the best. I'll be mad if they release DLC overwriting it.

Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2012, 06:27:59 PM »

That Gunslinger

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Damn you! Stop changing my mind! Agh it's totally right too. AAAAAARGH!

Ok fine, so some combination of those two theories is probably accurate. Fine, it was smarter than I thought, but we still didn't get any closure. A game where decisions matter so much, you have to be able to see the consequences, otherwise what's the point. I still want an altered ending. Get rid of the crap with the mass relays exploding, and my crew saying: "Bye, suckers!". Basically ignore everything after the Citadel fires the beam at the relays and the ending is fine, but add many more scenes. If Shepard lives or dies, I want to know for sure. I want my teammates to be pulling me out of that rubble, not pissing off to a distant planet. I want to see what came out of those alliances I worked my ass off for. Do the Turians and Krogan get along? Do the Rachni or Geth get a citadel ambassador? Does Wrex keep the peace with the Krogan clans, and does Tuchanka get revived to it's former glory? So many crucial questions, and no answers is not good enough. I don't want everyone to have a happy ending, but I want them to have an ending.

Wow I really got suckered by the Reapers didn't I? Don't make a me a Spectre any time soon.
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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2012, 07:04:06 PM »

Sixftunder

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Damn you! Stop changing my mind! Agh it's totally right too. AAAAAARGH!

Ok fine, so some combination of those two theories is probably accurate. Fine, it was smarter than I thought, but we still didn't get any closure. A game where decisions matter so much, you have to be able to see the consequences, otherwise what's the point. I still want an altered ending. Get rid of the crap with the mass relays exploding, and my crew saying: "Bye, suckers!". Basically ignore everything after the Citadel fires the beam at the relays and the ending is fine, but add many more scenes. If Shepard lives or dies, I want to know for sure. I want my teammates to be pulling me out of that rubble, not pissing off to a distant planet. I want to see what came out of those alliances I worked my ass off for. Do the Turians and Krogan get along? Do the Rachni or Geth get a citadel ambassador? Does Wrex keep the peace with the Krogan clans, and does Tuchanka get revived to it's former glory? So many crucial questions, and no answers is not good enough. I don't want everyone to have a happy ending, but I want them to have an ending.

Wow I really got suckered by the Reapers didn't I? Don't make a me a Spectre any time soon.

It is indeed frustrating. But I agree with you, if this latter theory is correct, we still need closure.

Someone also pointed out that if everything after the blast was a dream or indoctrination effort, then the relays exploding and joker running off could also be a fabrication of Shepard's mind. All in all, DLC will definitely be coming out, and I hope it sheds some more light on this. I was angry and upset at first, now I am just more confused and curious. Maybe this was Bioware's intention?
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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2012, 07:25:46 PM »

That Gunslinger

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Maybe this was Bioware's intention?
Or EA's. You make a fair point about the Joker ending part, but all it has achieved is frustrating the fans, that's it. Think about it, everyone wants a different ending, EA releases it. Everyone buys it because lets face it, you're going to. EA gets even richer while Bioware takes the hate. I know publishers have away of corrupting artistic vision, but Bioware has to take some of the blame here. I just wish publishers would do it for the art of it, as well as the money. There has to be a balance.

On one hand I hate the idea that we have to pay for the actual ending of the game ('cause it won't be free), but I and the majority of fans will buy it without a single thought because we want resolution, and....you know what? No, I don't want DLC, I want the 16 endings we were fucking promised and I want them now. What the hell would Shepard be fighting anyway? Theres no real gameplay to be had there, nor do I want any. I finished Shepard's story, good or bad, dead or alive, I deserve to see the consequences of the choices I made. Am I acting self-entitled? Maybe. But I want what I was promised for my money. It's not even able the money, I genuinely care about those characters, and what did they do? They fucked off when Shepard needed them the most. They would never do that.
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Re: Mass Effect 3
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2012, 07:40:29 PM »

Sixftunder

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Maybe this was Bioware's intention?
Or EA's. You make a fair point about the Joker ending part, but all it has achieved is frustrating the fans, that's it. Think about it, everyone wants a different ending, EA releases it. Everyone buys it because lets face it, you're going to. EA gets even richer while Bioware takes the hate. I know publishers have away of corrupting artistic vision, but Bioware has to take some of the blame here. I just wish publishers would do it for the art of it, as well as the money. There has to be a balance.

On one hand I hate the idea that we have to pay for the actual ending of the game ('cause it won't be free), but I and the majority of fans will buy it without a single thought because we want resolution, and....you know what? No, I don't want DLC, I want the 16 endings we were fucking promised and I want them now. What the hell would Shepard be fighting anyway? Theres no real gameplay to be had there, nor do I want any. I finished Shepard's story, good or bad, dead or alive, I deserve to see the consequences of the choices I made. Am I acting self-entitled? Maybe. But I want what I was promised for my money. It's not even able the money, I genuinely care about those characters, and what did they do? They fucked off when Shepard needed them the most. They would never do that.

I completely agree with everything you just said. The DLC absolutely needs to be free. We were promised an end to the saga, and it wasn't delivered.

With a little more research, there have been rumors of a DLC pack entitled "the Truth DLC" being released in April or May, in which the final decision made in the game with have an effect on the DLC.

I think I am at the point that I am going to accept the hallucination/indoctrination theory and wait for new DLC. Because of this, I am  going to finish my second playthrough, on Insanity mind you, and choose the destroy option.
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