Author Topic: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?  (Read 1114 times)

What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« on: April 19, 2016, 01:11:06 PM »

Sarmas

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First off I guess hi, did not do welcome before. :)

Any how I was wondering what people thought about stuff that they hope comes back to the games or I guess the books too in terms of characters, settings, tech, really anything.

Although I'm sad Jul Mdama died I think his son would be an interesting character to bring back. I would also like more of Thorne and the Kilo-5 characters.

Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2016, 04:36:51 AM »

Capac Amaru

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I hope Jul comes back as a Zombie and eats Sarah Palmer's brain.

Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2016, 02:19:06 AM »

DangerousDave

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I hope Jul comes back as a Zombie and eats Sarah Palmer's brain.

Hope springs eternal for you, don't it :P

Hello, Sarmas, and welcome!

I agree that Jul's son would be a nice followup, and Thorne and Ray could be useful supporting characters. I guess the issue Halo has to do is balance a diffuse and thus less impactful set of characters versus a tighter group that gets more to do but can threaten to make the universe feel very small (hello, Star Wars.)

I'm on record really hoping for the return of the Flood, for a Firefight-like Horde mode if nothing else, but I think the dissolution of the Covenant really gives an opening to introduce different post-Covenant factions like the Brutes from Last Light and Chol Von's Jackal confederation from Mortal Dictata.

Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2016, 09:47:30 AM »

Tar Alacrin

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Ey! Yeah, the element that I hope comes back is good writing. ZING! HAHA! I'll be here all night.

I'm glad that they brought firefight back to 5. (in fact, all the recent content updates for halo 5 are really making me want to get an xbox one again if they keep it up i'll probably cave soon)

Honestly though, like dave said, I want to see the flood return. Specifically I want the weird trochaic heptameter speaking gravemind to come back.

But most of all; I want to see the sense of mystery return to the series. A big part of why I joined this community, and why I loved the earlier games was that there was a sense of mystery and wonder that pervaded everything (in fact, I saw a video recently that was a "literary analysis" of halo, and the guy claimed that halo 1 at least was more in line with being a mystery than any other genre of storytelling, its an alright vid, I can link it if people care) A lot of that has been lost in the later games. Part of that has to do with the writing; I'm not studied enough to make a serious critique on the writing, but I think that the writers of Halo in the later games (Reach and beyond, or even halo 3 and beyond, ODST excluded) have been trying to write epic space operas or sci-fi military dramas, and then trying to shoehorn in, or forgetting entirely, the element of mystery and wonder that so defined the games in their golden years.

The other part of that loss of the mystery has to do with how familiar we've become with everything in the story and the forerunner society and everything; you can only be awed and surprised by a forerunner structure so many times before it becomes fairly mundane. Especially when you aren't even trying to change our perspective on the things; like we are still just running through forerunner ruins blowing up covys and robots trying to stop them from activating and destroying everything.

But the thing is, the Halo universe is way big enough to bring that feeling back. As Dave mentioned (I think in a different thread) a political thriller, Some sort of interfaction drama between the different post-covy factions could fit the bill, especially since there are pretty much limitless possibilities for factions and groups that we haven't explored yet. Or if you want to keep riding the train of spectacle creep until the franchise completely burns; have the next set of games all about the precursor and the flood and exploring some precursor stuff thats gonna destroy the galaxy. It might be able to revive that feeling since we know next to nothing about precursors or their architechture/society and how it functions.


EDIT: added this next bit.

Quote
I guess the issue Halo has to do is balance a diffuse and thus less impactful set of characters versus a tighter group that gets more to do but can threaten to make the universe feel very small (hello, Star Wars.)

I don't think that this is really a problem that can't be overcome with just "better writing" - take Game Of Thrones for example; its got a million characters who still manage to have an impact or at least feel like they do. Granted, its a bit unfair to compare GoT with Halo

I think the solution might just be to introduce more threats in the universe; I feel like currently everything ties too neatly together. It would be nice to have multiple things that are seriously presenting a threat consistently, right now the only thing going on in the universe besides tons of little brush wars is the AI uprising (which is a big deal don't get me wrong) but it would be easier to write in more characters that also manage to get stuff done if there was more than one and a half threats facing the world. Heck, even in the early games there was always the threat of the flood/forerunner junk, and the covy war engine. Now its just the threat of cortana and the AI/forerunner, and the covy's aren't really a threat at all.

Halo's issue isn't that they have to balance more characters with less impact vs less characters with more impact, its more that they have to not constantly neuter the characters that they write; like the Arbiter, stuck in his palace fighting dumb little skirmishes unable to really do anything. Or the Infinity, which is so overpowered that if you want to write a good story you need to either disable it or not use it, which severely limits the ability to use any of the characters on board for any kind of story.

Another thing that they could do to bring back that mystery would be to just say that there is more to the halo rings than what we know. I mean, they were massive construction projects used as a last resort, its not too crazy to think they would slip as many other last resort ideas on to the rings as they could
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 12:27:10 PM by Tar Alacrin »
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Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2016, 01:18:47 PM »

DangerousDave

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Well, there's still what? Three Halo rings unaccounted for out there? No need to invent more :)

The mystery aspect is something I think gets brought up often. I dunno how you could really re-establish that unless you set up campaigns where you basically get to just wander about. As you say we know who the Forerunners are now, they've got faces. But there have to be locationsólike a former Covenant planet, a completely new alien locationówhere players wouldn't have the same ingrained responses.

Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2016, 12:38:23 PM »

Capac Amaru

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Well, there's still what? Three Halo rings unaccounted for out there? No need to invent more :)

The mystery aspect is something I think gets brought up often. I dunno how you could really re-establish that unless you set up campaigns where you basically get to just wander about. As you say we know who the Forerunners are now, they've got faces. But there have to be locationsólike a former Covenant planet, a completely new alien locationówhere players wouldn't have the same ingrained responses.

I think they've really missed the boat. They've turned the aliens into just 'monsters'. How different factions deal with each other, squabbling over the lost remnants of the Forerunner, is plenty of room for mystery and conflict.

But instead we just get mindless robot and monster shooting.

Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2016, 02:36:22 AM »

Tar Alacrin

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Yeah, I agree Pretty much what Capac said. They had a chance to really open things up post covenant fall and really create a fascinating universe with tons of little factions and make like a mini game of thrones in space with all the different factions and characters and cultures that rose up post fall. Instead we get UNSC + maybe a couple innies + Arby and friends Covy + a single new faction that they introduce for each new story they tell that has no impact on anything outside that story and probably gets disbanded or depowered at the end of it.

EDIT: Frick, that mini-game of thrones in space with Halo idea... With like, the Flood as the White Walkers, and Cortana and the Created as Danny and her crew, and all the myriad of UNSC and post-war covenant factions and ex UNSC innie factions as all the warring houses of Westeros... Then like, throw an original idea into the mix somewhere... I want this... So bad... It hurts...

But anyways, in reply to Dave: There are WAY many things that they could do to re-establish the sense of mystery without making up new stuff. Like, on so many levels; if you want to do the easy, sensationalist, and massive spectacle way; Bring back the precursors some how. Them's full of mystery. Or we can not do that, and explore what the heck is going on with the entire other ark that's still floating about out there somewhere. Or we could bring in Installation 07 and what the heck is going on there? There is the possibility of forerunner-flood forms or something and just creepy stuff in general, perhaps the mystery is that since its the remnant of the original halo array it still retains the power to do targeted halo blasts; making it infinitely more dangerous and scary once we learn that; but it would require some self control on their part to not reveal that info in the first two missions and then have the rest of the missions involve explosions all over the galaxy. Just, spend some time in one place. Don't run around across the entire galaxy. Spend time in one place and develop that location; make the location and the factions there all characters unto themselves. Especially if its a place that we don't know everything about. And don't tell us everything about it in the first two missions. And don't hurtle the thing into the sun as soon as you are done with that game.

And that's all ideas that don't even touch on all the crazy cool possibilities that would arise with dealing with different post-war post-covenant factions and settings. I mean, imagine if we flipped the formula on its head and had us stumble upon a huge covenant-built installation, that's purpose we Don't know and can't immediately figure out. An installation/space-station/giant superstructure that in the events following the war has fallen into disrepair and is seemingly abandoned and overgrown. Perhaps it was an experimental thing that's existence was kept fairly secret, and when the covenant collapsed; all record of it was lost in the civil war. And we have to survive on it and figure out what it is, and then we discover some crazy weird faction of covenant has taken up residence deep within. A faction that has a really weird social hierarchy and culture from what we are used to.

But really, its not even just about the central mystery in the game, but even just the way that you tell it. Obviously if you want that experience; its important for you to actually Have a mystery to piece together, both at the start AND at the end of the game. But that sense of mystery that I'm talking about is created separate from all that within the games themselves; from how they doll out information, and how they Don't doll out information.

That sense of mystery is created by a bunch of things; like by giving the player information on a subject, then throwing a wrench into it later and revealing that that was actually misinformation or half truths; this creates a mindset in the player that they don't know if all their assumptions are correct, an emotion crucial to mysteries. Also by simply Not giving the player information on every single topic; at the end of the game there should be multiple questions left unanswered, or at least not completely answered. The sense of mystery is also created by dolling out the information you do give slowly in a well thought out and timed manner; stringing you along and making the player try to piece together whats going on themselves. Between giving out misinformation, not giving out all information on every topic, and the practice of giving out information slowly the player can't help but get drawn in to the universe and try to piece together the whats going on. You have to introduce something, then don't give loads of information about it, then let the player develop their own theories and speculations about it; then give them a little bit of information about it that subverts their expectations and let them think about what this new information means.

Seriously, just look at each level of the original halo, and you'll realize that pretty much the whole narrative of the game can be broken down into levels that introduce something new and don't hardly explain anything about it, Give a small amount of information about a previously established topic, or give more information that contradicts and overrides previous information. Everything down even to the level design on levels like 343 Guilty spark is designed to foster that sense of mystery. Halo wasn't a space opera, it was a mystery thriller set in space in a military sci-fi universe.

All that to say though, the sense of mystery has just as much to do with how the story is told and how the game is designed, as it does with the actual story being told or setting or events that take place.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 02:57:36 AM by Tar Alacrin »
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Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2016, 10:29:02 PM »

DangerousDave

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The problem is it's hard to explore the setup you're talking about, unless they radically change what Halo is, and I can't see them moving that far away from its FPS roots. The development of Halo 5 and the cut Infinity stuff makes me think it's possible we'll get Star Trek-style "away" missions instead of a purely linear campaign structure, however.

Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2016, 08:18:59 PM »

Tar Alacrin

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Eh, I don't think its that hard though. (some of the stuff, obviously exploring all sorts of different post covy races might be midly difficult) Cause Halo 1 did it, ODST did it too, Halo 2 kinda did it. I'm not saying to make Halo into Mass Effect where you run about and explore stuff all day. Ultimately its about how they treat the story and level design around the generic Halo FPS shooty bits.

Interestingly enough; just saw this video; its some guy talking about Halo 5/MCC's troubled development cycle that he heard from some ex 343 guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qne0WBfCuj8&ab_channel=LateNightGaming-HaloNews&Entertainment

The guy makes some pretty big claims, but most of them seem pretty solid. And much of what was said aligns with what we already knew about H5's development cycle. Its interesting how he talks about the canceled open world elements though, like a combo of ODST and a traditional halo game. Sounds pretty good. Oh well I guess.


I guess honestly the first thing that would be nice is if they would just pick something and stick with that arc, instead of shifting things around last minute and in reaction to other things and stuff.
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Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2016, 01:07:46 PM »

DangerousDave

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Judging by the stuff on that guy's channel, I'm not sure I buy any of his claims.

The idea that Microsoft was going to kill off Cortana so it wouldn't interfere with their voice assistant, but now they brought her back as an antagonist, just doesn't scan.

The stuff that's credible is the stuff that we already knew (the Infinity hub world concept, early concepts of Spartan Team Osiris.) We also already knew that the MCC was originally just H2A in scope.

Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2016, 05:25:19 PM »

Tar Alacrin

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Yeah, I kinda felt the same way after I looked into his channel too. Still wouldn't be surprised if they originally wanted to kill off cortana for good though, idk, it's pretty obvious that whatever the vision for 4 and 5 was it's been rewritten pretty drastically redone a couple times. But whatever, Halo 5 forge seems great. Good enough to convince me to buy a xbone just to play it as soon as I get the cash, so it's not all doom and gloom  :P
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Re: What elements/characters do you hope come bacK?
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2016, 04:46:14 PM »

DangerousDave

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Yeah, I kinda felt the same way after I looked into his channel too. Still wouldn't be surprised if they originally wanted to kill off cortana for good though, idk, it's pretty obvious that whatever the vision for 4 and 5 was it's been rewritten pretty drastically redone a couple times. But whatever, Halo 5 forge seems great. Good enough to convince me to buy a xbone just to play it as soon as I get the cash, so it's not all doom and gloom  :P

Well, you can just wait for the Halo 5 Forge on W10, but it'd be nice to play with your on XB1 too :P